ETC- U.S Tank Destroyer

[deggial]

Tässä nyt sitten pari lista vaihtoehtoa jenkkien tankkien tuhoojilla.
Molemmissa listoissa Paton mukana tuomassa Always Attack säännön ja Spearhead Moven niille joilla sitä ei ole.

Lista 1:
Compulsory Tank Destroyer Company HQ - 1x CinC M20 Scout Car, 1x 2iC M20 Scout Car (80 pts)
- Patton - 1x Patton (100 pts)

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x M20, 4x M10 3in GMC (405 pts)

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x M20, 4x M10 3in GMC (405 pts)

Tank Platoon - 1x Command M4 or M4A1 Sherman, 2x M4 or M4A1 Sherman (250 pts)
- Jumbo Upgrade - 1x Replace M4 or M4A1 Sherman with M4A3E2 Jumbo Sherman (60 pts)

Cavalry Recon Platoon - 1x Command M8 Armoured Car, 1x Mortar Jeep, 1x Recon Jeep (70 pts)

Rifle Platoon - 1x Command Rifle, 1x Bazooka, 9x Rifle (155 pts)

Veteran Field Artillery Battery - 1x Command Carbine, 1x Staff, 1x Observer Carbine, 1x Jeep, 4x M2A1 105mm Howitzer (185 pts)

Air Observation Post - L4 Grasshopper AOP (40 pts)

Tämä perustuu figuihin mitä löytyy suuremmalta osin tällä hetkellä.
Rifle Platoon hyppää hermannien kyytiin ja käyttää niitä takseina Pattonin spearhead liikkeellä

Lista 2:

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Company HQ - 1x CinC M20 Scout Car, 1x 2iC M20 Scout Car (80 pts)
- Patton - 1x Patton (100 pts)

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x M20, 4x M18 Hellcat GMC (410 pts)

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x M20, 4x M18 Hellcat GMC (410 pts)

Cavalry Recon Platoon - 1x Command M8 Armoured Car, 1x Mortar Jeep, 1x Recon Jeep (70 pts)

Light Tank Platoon - 1x Command M5A1 Stuart, 3x M5A1 Stuart (210 pts)

Corps Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x M20, 4x M10 3in GMC (315 pts)

Rifle Platoon - 1x Command Rifle, 1x Bazooka, 9x Rifle (155 pts)


1750 Points, 6 Platoons

Listan ideana liikkua nopeasti aiheuttaen maksimaalista tuhoa vastustajalle 10:llä AT 13 vaunulla.
Stuartit nappaa jalkaväen kyytiin ja tiputtaa ne parempiin asemiin spearhed liikkeen jälkeen.


Tällä hetkellä kallistun lista ykkösen puoleen, mutta testipelejä tarvitaan jonkin verran

[Gorzag]

Normaalisti mä vannon Reconin nimeen, mutta onko toi Cavalry Recon Platoon näissä listoissa oikeasti tarpeellinen, kun kuitenkin Tank Destroyerit ja HQ on kaikki Reconia. Jumbo tuntuu vähän hassulta, kun on slow tankina niin paljon hitaampi kun koko muu armeija, mut muuten en osaa sanoa kumpi listoista olisi parempi.

Niin joo, mihin sä oot unohtanut Armoured Rifle Platoonin? Se on ainakin mun mielestä yksi koko pelin parhaista yksiköistä, ja toimiva mitä vaan vastaan.

[Celebdae]

Tässä ihan ajatuksien herättämiseksi yksi postaus kaverilta, jota pidetään ilmeisen yleisesti (ainakin) Jenkkien parhaana pelaajana. Tuolta poimia voi ainakin nuo Towed Tank Destroyerit. Mikko varmaan maalaa sellaiset ilo mielin, jos ei jo ole =)

The Trouble with Tank Destroyers (for all of you Treckie geeks out there). Also, happy 35th birthday to Star Wars, I was 10, sitting in the front row, 35 years ago today embracing my inner geek at an early age. Who didn’t think that the opening sequence with the Star Destroyer blotting out the screen was the coolest thing ever.

I was as surprised about how well TFA did as everyone else was. As a tournament force, TFA sucked in V2. Fragile, trained, always attack, and the existing recon/TD rules hand-cuffed the army. It could win games, but it was not going to win big tournaments. Allen talked me into taking TFA to Nationals (I was planning on taking an ARP list). I figured that TFA would be a fun list, but that I wouldn’t place real high with it. I saw it as a platoon bleeder. My 1st game with TFA was game one at Nationals. I had never played the force before, but I had played the component parts. Game 1 was my 4th V3 game (and I don’t count the first 3 as they were at a doubles tournament and the armies that we faced really didn’t have many V3 changes). I actually read the V3 rules on the plane to Nationals, so I was not as familiar with how things worked as I would have liked to been, and I definitely made mistakes that cost me platoons. Seeing the army in action during Game 1 of Nationals really changed my mind. There’s no way that TFA should make King Tigers hide, killing one turn 1, one turn 2, and routing the army turn 3 with the loss of only 2 infantry stands. This is not knocking my opponent’s ability, but unknown to both of us, he brought a plastic knife to a tank fight.

My Army
HQ M8s
2 Recon platoons
2 Hellcat platoons
5 Shermans w/Pool
Full Engineer platoon with truck and dozer tank
AOP

The V3 rule changes.
1. The new Recon rules no longer stop you from moving within 16 inches of your opponent. Assuming that you stay out of LOS, you can move to within 8 inches. Assuming a good terrain board, staying out of LOS is not that hard. Independents and Warriors also don’t stop your move.
2. The TD platoons are recon platoons (see US special rules). That means that all of the teams in the TD platoon are recon, even the TDs. This means that if I pop the TDs within LOS and 16 inches on turn 1 (they haven’t moved), some of the TDs can lift GtG. Also this means that ambushes cannot be placed within 8 inched of the TDs making a nice bubble around them.
3. The new TD deployment rules allow you to pop the TDs at close range every time. Even assuming that you cannot move your security section within 16 inches, you can pop the TDs 4 inches closer using their ambush assuming that you are concealed from enemy teams. You can pop them as close as 4.0x inches assuming that they are not close to recon and in cover.
4. Spearhead allows you to move your Engineers up in support of your TDs early. Leave them in the trucks for spearhead, move them forward, them vacate the trucks on turn one. The New wheeled movement allows them to move father (road movement is crazy), so you are close before the game even begins.
5. Always attack means that you get to pull this move pretty much every game unless you’re facing Soviet tanks.
6. No forced disengage.
7. Using self defense AA doesn't prevent shooting or assaulting in your next phase.

Individual TD platoons are not that nasty by themselves. Sprinting forward with no support basically means that they die the turn after they shoot. Moving them forward in conjunction with other supporting platoons make them deadly. Only TFA and the new TD lists can have multiple TD platoons, making these very nasty lists. TFA is perfect at lower point level because they are CT and cheap. The BGG TD platoon is awesome at 1750 because you can afford all of the nice toys and actually get up to 4 TD platoons in your army (not optimal).

My most recent game had me playing FW against a Fallshirmjager army played by Brain Jordano, a VERY good player (3rd at 2008 Nationals). His army at 1575 was quite a nice list.

HQ maxed out
Big infantry platoon
Small infantry platoon
3 werfers
2 armored AA trucks
4 PzIVs
3 StuGs

Big infantry defended the middle objective (fading to one flank), small infantry on the most exposed objective, werfers off center by big infantry, StuGs and AA in woods (just pointing out) on other flank. We had a good terrain board with lots of avenues of approach. In V2, this would have been a great defending board for the infantry player. Lots of places to hide, and good concealed movement areas on his side of the board.

Recon move the TD Security Sections 16 inches forward hiding behind a wood. Recon move the recon sections 12-16 inches forward again staying out of LOS, Spearhead move the infantry on a road full movement (out of LOS).

Turn 1
Pop TDs 4 inches forward, still out of LOS, move to engage StuGs. Dismount infantry and move forward threatening left objective. Move recon to prevent ambush, place AOP to prevent ambush. Move tanks forward. All but one recon section was targeted at the left objective defended by the vehicles. The other was keeping the infantry platoon on the far objective honest. Shoot StuGs with 8 AT 12 shots needing 6s. Kill 1 bail 1.

German remounts, has no place to drop ambush, cannot move infantry against all of my MGs. Shoots and kills two TDs.

Turn 2
Move tanks forward to engage, move infantry into assault range, adjust recon to block ambushes. Kill remaining StuGs and AA, surround objective, game over.

The new rules allow you to basically mass your entire force exactly where you want it on turn 1. This gives your opponent very little if any time to react to your deployment and movement. It likely means that a good portion of their army is dead turn one. Depending on terrain, you can actually have your infantry assaulting on turn 1 with 11 stands of engineers. Not pretty.

The new TD list is even nastier at 1750. First, they’re now CV making any return fire less likely to hurt you. You can also take more TD platoons making the initial blitz even nastier. You are now AT13, so why bother even trying to flank panthers, thus dropping your ROF. Just take 24 shots from the front. He will roll a few one and twos. You can take Patton (the only list that I think he’s good in) to make the army Always Attack, get more Spearhead for your engineers or ARP, and get 3+ morale where you need it. And the nastiest platoon in the army is the towed TDs. That’s right, I said the towed TDs.

For 355 points for CV, you get 4 3” guns, 4 bazookas, a command stand, and 4 half tracks with .50 cals. These get to move forward as recon with your other TDs (see US special rules). So you move 8 Hellcats within knife fighting range supported by the towed TDs before the game starts. You now have potentially 24 AT 13 shots, 4 AT 10 shots, a bunch of .50 cal shots, bazooka teams that can lift GtG, and bazooka teams and the command team that can assault all on turn one. Tell me what is going to survive that?

Yes, there are armies out there that will eat these guys alive. Unfortunately, these armies pretty much suck against most other good tournament armies. Fortifications can slow them down in certain scenarios, but they suck against other armies so aren’t really a tournament threat. Wire and minefields also can help, but again, the aren’t good against other things and can tie up points spent elsewhere. Remember, all winning tournament lists need to be able to attack, even infantry. You cannot expect to sit back and win all of your games, particularly in fair fight missions (and most tournaments have at least 1). Taking massive recon can help, but again suck against other forces. Pretty much any tank army is in trouble, along with most infantry armies. A good TD or TFA list has ton of .50 cals for anti-infantry work, and the .50 cals can make short work of marauding airplanes as well (you can now shoot self defense AA and still fire main weaponry in your next round).

Basically, these guys need to be fixed.

Bill

[deggial]

Normaalisti mä vannon Reconin nimeen, mutta onko toi Cavalry Recon Platoon näissä listoissa oikeasti tarpeellinen, kun kuitenkin Tank Destroyerit ja HQ on kaikki Reconia. Jumbo tuntuu vähän hassulta, kun on slow tankina niin paljon hitaampi kun koko muu armeija, mut muuten en osaa sanoa kumpi listoista olisi parempi.

Niin joo, mihin sä oot unohtanut Armoured Rifle Platoonin? Se on ainakin mun mielestä yksi koko pelin parhaista yksiköistä, ja toimiva mitä vaan vastaan.

Totta, tuo ns.oikea recce on vähän turha, mutta sillä saa sen kuudennen komppanian.
Jumbo on hermannien mukana koppaamassa osumia, varsinkin jos mennään lähikseen tappelemaan.

ARP puuttuu, mutta tilalla on köyhän miehen versio normi jalkaväellä, jotka hyppäävät hermannien kyytiin alussa.
Spearhead liikkeellä parempiin asemiin ihmettelemään.

mut mut- testipelejä kehiin mikä funkkaa parhaiten

[deggial]

Tässä ihan ajatuksien herättämiseksi yksi postaus kaverilta, jota pidetään ilmeisen yleisesti (ainakin) Jenkkien parhaana pelaajana. Tuolta poimia voi ainakin nuo Towed Tank Destroyerit. Mikko varmaan maalaa sellaiset ilo mielin, jos ei jo ole =)

The Trouble with Tank Destroyers (for all of you Treckie geeks out there). Also, happy 35th birthday to Star Wars, I was 10, sitting in the front row, 35 years ago today embracing my inner geek at an early age. Who didn’t think that the opening sequence with the Star Destroyer blotting out the screen was the coolest thing ever.

I was as surprised about how well TFA did as everyone else was. As a tournament force, TFA sucked in V2. Fragile, trained, always attack, and the existing recon/TD rules hand-cuffed the army. It could win games, but it was not going to win big tournaments. Allen talked me into taking TFA to Nationals (I was planning on taking an ARP list). I figured that TFA would be a fun list, but that I wouldn’t place real high with it. I saw it as a platoon bleeder. My 1st game with TFA was game one at Nationals. I had never played the force before, but I had played the component parts. Game 1 was my 4th V3 game (and I don’t count the first 3 as they were at a doubles tournament and the armies that we faced really didn’t have many V3 changes). I actually read the V3 rules on the plane to Nationals, so I was not as familiar with how things worked as I would have liked to been, and I definitely made mistakes that cost me platoons. Seeing the army in action during Game 1 of Nationals really changed my mind. There’s no way that TFA should make King Tigers hide, killing one turn 1, one turn 2, and routing the army turn 3 with the loss of only 2 infantry stands. This is not knocking my opponent’s ability, but unknown to both of us, he brought a plastic knife to a tank fight.

My Army
HQ M8s
2 Recon platoons
2 Hellcat platoons
5 Shermans w/Pool
Full Engineer platoon with truck and dozer tank
AOP

The V3 rule changes.
1. The new Recon rules no longer stop you from moving within 16 inches of your opponent. Assuming that you stay out of LOS, you can move to within 8 inches. Assuming a good terrain board, staying out of LOS is not that hard. Independents and Warriors also don’t stop your move.
2. The TD platoons are recon platoons (see US special rules). That means that all of the teams in the TD platoon are recon, even the TDs. This means that if I pop the TDs within LOS and 16 inches on turn 1 (they haven’t moved), some of the TDs can lift GtG. Also this means that ambushes cannot be placed within 8 inched of the TDs making a nice bubble around them.
3. The new TD deployment rules allow you to pop the TDs at close range every time. Even assuming that you cannot move your security section within 16 inches, you can pop the TDs 4 inches closer using their ambush assuming that you are concealed from enemy teams. You can pop them as close as 4.0x inches assuming that they are not close to recon and in cover.
4. Spearhead allows you to move your Engineers up in support of your TDs early. Leave them in the trucks for spearhead, move them forward, them vacate the trucks on turn one. The New wheeled movement allows them to move father (road movement is crazy), so you are close before the game even begins.
5. Always attack means that you get to pull this move pretty much every game unless you’re facing Soviet tanks.
6. No forced disengage.
7. Using self defense AA doesn't prevent shooting or assaulting in your next phase.

Individual TD platoons are not that nasty by themselves. Sprinting forward with no support basically means that they die the turn after they shoot. Moving them forward in conjunction with other supporting platoons make them deadly. Only TFA and the new TD lists can have multiple TD platoons, making these very nasty lists. TFA is perfect at lower point level because they are CT and cheap. The BGG TD platoon is awesome at 1750 because you can afford all of the nice toys and actually get up to 4 TD platoons in your army (not optimal).

My most recent game had me playing FW against a Fallshirmjager army played by Brain Jordano, a VERY good player (3rd at 2008 Nationals). His army at 1575 was quite a nice list.

HQ maxed out
Big infantry platoon
Small infantry platoon
3 werfers
2 armored AA trucks
4 PzIVs
3 StuGs

Big infantry defended the middle objective (fading to one flank), small infantry on the most exposed objective, werfers off center by big infantry, StuGs and AA in woods (just pointing out) on other flank. We had a good terrain board with lots of avenues of approach. In V2, this would have been a great defending board for the infantry player. Lots of places to hide, and good concealed movement areas on his side of the board.

Recon move the TD Security Sections 16 inches forward hiding behind a wood. Recon move the recon sections 12-16 inches forward again staying out of LOS, Spearhead move the infantry on a road full movement (out of LOS).

Turn 1
Pop TDs 4 inches forward, still out of LOS, move to engage StuGs. Dismount infantry and move forward threatening left objective. Move recon to prevent ambush, place AOP to prevent ambush. Move tanks forward. All but one recon section was targeted at the left objective defended by the vehicles. The other was keeping the infantry platoon on the far objective honest. Shoot StuGs with 8 AT 12 shots needing 6s. Kill 1 bail 1.

German remounts, has no place to drop ambush, cannot move infantry against all of my MGs. Shoots and kills two TDs.

Turn 2
Move tanks forward to engage, move infantry into assault range, adjust recon to block ambushes. Kill remaining StuGs and AA, surround objective, game over.

The new rules allow you to basically mass your entire force exactly where you want it on turn 1. This gives your opponent very little if any time to react to your deployment and movement. It likely means that a good portion of their army is dead turn one. Depending on terrain, you can actually have your infantry assaulting on turn 1 with 11 stands of engineers. Not pretty.

The new TD list is even nastier at 1750. First, they’re now CV making any return fire less likely to hurt you. You can also take more TD platoons making the initial blitz even nastier. You are now AT13, so why bother even trying to flank panthers, thus dropping your ROF. Just take 24 shots from the front. He will roll a few one and twos. You can take Patton (the only list that I think he’s good in) to make the army Always Attack, get more Spearhead for your engineers or ARP, and get 3+ morale where you need it. And the nastiest platoon in the army is the towed TDs. That’s right, I said the towed TDs.

For 355 points for CV, you get 4 3” guns, 4 bazookas, a command stand, and 4 half tracks with .50 cals. These get to move forward as recon with your other TDs (see US special rules). So you move 8 Hellcats within knife fighting range supported by the towed TDs before the game starts. You now have potentially 24 AT 13 shots, 4 AT 10 shots, a bunch of .50 cal shots, bazooka teams that can lift GtG, and bazooka teams and the command team that can assault all on turn one. Tell me what is going to survive that?

Yes, there are armies out there that will eat these guys alive. Unfortunately, these armies pretty much suck against most other good tournament armies. Fortifications can slow them down in certain scenarios, but they suck against other armies so aren’t really a tournament threat. Wire and minefields also can help, but again, the aren’t good against other things and can tie up points spent elsewhere. Remember, all winning tournament lists need to be able to attack, even infantry. You cannot expect to sit back and win all of your games, particularly in fair fight missions (and most tournaments have at least 1). Taking massive recon can help, but again suck against other forces. Pretty much any tank army is in trouble, along with most infantry armies. A good TD or TFA list has ton of .50 cals for anti-infantry work, and the .50 cals can make short work of marauding airplanes as well (you can now shoot self defense AA and still fire main weaponry in your next round).

Basically, these guys need to be fixed.

Bill

Hyvää settiä liittyen Task Foce A komppaniaan.
Pikkaisen erillainen kun BGG:n tankin tuhooja versio.

Pitääpä tehdä myös siitä lista versio.

[gutrot]

Tässä ihan ajatuksien herättämiseksi yksi postaus kaverilta, jota pidetään ilmeisen yleisesti (ainakin) Jenkkien parhaana pelaajana. Tuolta poimia voi ainakin nuo Towed Tank Destroyerit. Mikko varmaan maalaa sellaiset ilo mielin, jos ei jo ole =)

Haha, eilen *taas* hipelöin tota towed pakettia Tapiolan pelikaupassa, osittain sen takia kun kiinnostaisi se maalata, osittain siksi, että ko. lafka ei juurikaan ole uusinut fow tarjontaansa vuoteen ja se paketti siinä taas oli.

Noita hinattuja tykkejä on pidetty aika hyvinä juurikin bazookojen takia. Sääli vain että TD company on ainoo BGG :stä joka niitä saa. 275pts 4 tykkiä, 4 bazookaa ja 4 M3 (50cal) on vielä kohtuu halpa, mutta tosiaan ei kaikille saatavilla.

[deggial]

Tässä ihan ajatuksien herättämiseksi yksi postaus kaverilta, jota pidetään ilmeisen yleisesti (ainakin) Jenkkien parhaana pelaajana. Tuolta poimia voi ainakin nuo Towed Tank Destroyerit. Mikko varmaan maalaa sellaiset ilo mielin, jos ei jo ole =)

Haha, eilen *taas* hipelöin tota towed pakettia Tapiolan pelikaupassa, osittain sen takia kun kiinnostaisi se maalata, osittain siksi, että ko. lafka ei juurikaan ole uusinut fow tarjontaansa vuoteen ja se paketti siinä taas oli.

Noita hinattuja tykkejä on pidetty aika hyvinä juurikin bazookojen takia. Sääli vain että TD company on ainoo BGG :stä joka niitä saa. 275pts 4 tykkiä, 4 bazookaa ja 4 M3 (50cal) on vielä kohtuu halpa, mutta tosiaan ei kaikille saatavilla.

Joo- noille towed tykeille olisi käyttöä myös muissa BGG:n listoissa.

Ainoa noissa tykeissä taitaapi olla huonoa niiden isohko foot print kentällä ja se että ne liikkuu hitaasti ilmestymisensä jälkeen + on haavoittuvaisia tykistölle (pinning) ja random kk-tulelle.

Pitääpä vähän tuunata tuota listaa, ja ottaa ainakin ne "panssaroidut kiväärit" mukaan

[Celebdae]

Mä askartelin tällasen listan BG&G:stä.

Tank Destroyer

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Company HQ - 1x CinC M20 Scout Car, 1x 2iC M20 Scout Car (80 pts)
- Patton - 1x Patton (100 pts)

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x M20, 4x M18 Hellcat GMC (410 pts)

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x M20, 4x M18 Hellcat GMC (410 pts)

Towed Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x Recon Jeep, 1x Command Carbine, 4x M5 3" gun (195 pts)
- Bazooka - 4x Bazooka (only if 4 guns) (60 pts)
- Transport - 4x M3 half-track with .50 cal AA MG (only if 4x M5 3" gun) (20 pts)

Armored Rifle Platoon - 1x Command Rifle, 3x Rifle, 4x Bazooka, 2x LMG, 1x 60mm Mortar, 2x M3 with .50cal AA MG, 2x M3 with AA MG (235 pts)

Veteran Field Artillery Battery - 1x Command Carbine, 1x Staff, 1x Observer Carbine, 1x Jeep, 2x M2A1 105mm Howitzer (100 pts)

Veteran Field Artillery Battery - 1x Command Carbine, 1x Staff, 1x Observer Carbine, 1x Jeep, 2x M2A1 105mm Howitzer (100 pts)

Air Observation Post - L4 Grasshopper AOP (40 pts)


1750 Points, 6 Platoons

Towed Tank Destroyerit on vain trained, muut veteraaneja. Armored rifles piti lisäksi ottaa pienempänä versiona, että saa 6 joukkuetta kasaan, mutta on tossa silti 11 tiimiä.


Sit tietysti vois luottaa Pattonin Always attackiin ja lähteä vain viidellä joukkueella. Kaikki veteraaneja ja ihan näppärästi mitä tarttee. Eli tällanen versio:

Tank Destroyer

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Company HQ - 1x CinC M20 Scout Car, 1x 2iC M20 Scout Car (80 pts)
- Patton - 1x Patton (100 pts)

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x M20, 4x M18 Hellcat GMC (410 pts)

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x M20, 4x M18 Hellcat GMC (410 pts)

Veteran Towed Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x Recon Jeep, 1x Command Carbine, 4x M5 3" gun (255 pts)
- Bazooka - 2x Bazooka (40 pts)
- Transport - 4x M3 half-track with .50 cal AA MG (only if 4x M5 3" gun) (20 pts)

Armored Rifle Platoon - 1x Command Rifle, 5x Rifle, 5x Bazooka, 2x LMG, 1x 60mm Mortar, 2x M3 with .50cal AA MG, 3x M3 with AA MG (295 pts)

Veteran Field Artillery Battery - 1x Command Carbine, 1x Staff, 1x Observer Carbine, 1x Jeep, 2x M2A1 105mm Howitzer (100 pts)

Air Observation Post - L4 Grasshopper AOP (40 pts)


1750 Points, 5 Platoons

[gutrot]

Toi jälkimmäinen on imo paree vaikka onkin pariton määrä, täysi AR on kova valinta, ja listan käytännössä ainoa assaulttaava/kaivautuva elementti. Lisäksi Patton rerollii reservejä, joten helpommin ne sieltä tulee.
Tietty towed td :n ja artilleryn voi vaihtaa tankkijoukkueeseenkin, sitten olisi neljä joukkuetta, joista kaksi kestäisikin hieman tulitusta.

[Celebdae]

Mä vähän suunnittelin nuo listat siinä hengessä, että vuorolla 1 (tai 2) saadaan aikaan massiivinen Alpha strike kaikilla Tank destroyereilla (ml. towed tykit). Vihollinen ei menetyksistä enää toivu ja pienempikin jalkaväki voi sitten myöhemmin mopata yhden objektiivin. Ja joku lähde savulle ois kuitenkin mun mielestä hyvä olla.

[gutrot]

Jep, ensi-isku on se mihin pitää pyrkiä näillä, koska toista iskua antamassa oli turnauksessa yleensä vain savuavat rungot.
Armored rifleillä voi paikata tilanteita missä tää ei toteudu syystä tai toisesta. Se kun perustuu recce/spearhead liikkeeseen, niin esmes. Oskari epäurheilijamaisesti blokkasi multa nämä. Tästä johtui se, että iskua ei voi tehdä ekalla vuorolla.

Huomatkaa muuten 1 juttu joka multa jäi tajuamatta. Recce liikkeet tehdään *vuorotellen* jos molemmilla on useampi recce. Eli skenussa jos sanotaan että attacker tekee ensin, niin menee att -> def -> att -> def.

Aini, mulla ei siis ole noita hinattavia tykkejä kun niiden käyttö on niin rajoitettua ja se on se tämän hetken kansainvälisesti tunnustettu juustokombo.
Mutta alkohoolilla lahjomalla noi saa maalattuina turnaukseen, jos joku muu niitä ei lainaa.

[JussiV]

Mulla on toi Towed TD pikkuboksi ollut kohta vuoden hyllyssä odottamassa. Voisin maalailla sen isänmaallisessa hengessä hyvään käyttöön.

[deggial]

Toi jälkimmäinen on imo paree vaikka onkin pariton määrä, täysi AR on kova valinta, ja listan käytännössä ainoa assaulttaava/kaivautuva elementti. Lisäksi Patton rerollii reservejä, joten helpommin ne sieltä tulee.
Tietty towed td :n ja artilleryn voi vaihtaa tankkijoukkueeseenkin, sitten olisi neljä joukkuetta, joista kaksi kestäisikin hieman tulitusta.

Mnä olen kanssa ton kannalla, että molemmat "tykit" vaihtoon ja tilalle tankkijoukkue.

En vieläkään ole vakuuttunut noista vedettävistä TD-tykeistä..

[deggial]

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Company HQ - 1x CinC M20 Scout Car, 1x 2iC M20 Scout Car (80 pts)
- Patton - 1x Patton (100 pts)

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x M20, 4x M10 3in GMC (405 pts)

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x M20, 4x M10 3in GMC (405 pts)

Tank Platoon - 1x Command M4 or M4A1 Sherman, 3x M4 or M4A1 Sherman (335 pts)
- 76mm Upgrade 1 - 1x Replace M4 or M4A1 Sherman with M4A1 (76mm) Sherman (50 pts)
- 76mm Upgrade 2 - 1x Replace M4 or M4A1 Sherman with M4A1 (76mm) Sherman (50 pts)
- 105 Upgrade (one per company) - 1x Replace M4 or M4A1 Sherman with M4A3 (105mm) Sherman (-10 pts)

Armored Rifle Platoon - 1x Command Rifle, 5x Rifle, 5x Bazooka, 2x LMG, 1x 60mm Mortar, 2x M3 with .50cal AA MG, 3x M3 with AA MG (295 pts)

Air Observation Post - L4 Grasshopper AOP (40 pts)


1750 Points, 4 Platoons

Tässä voisi olla lista mitä voisi testailla.
Pitäisi löytyä kestävyyttä ja iskuvoimaa.
Kaikilla autoilla ja tankeilla on .50cal kk:t, eli poteroista kaivaminen on vähän helpompaa.

[Celebdae]

Mikä noista towed tank destroyereista tekee hyviä on, että komento- ja bazookatiimit on kans recceä. Ne siis voi poistaa gone to groundin ja muut ampua. Tossa listassa joutuisit uhraamaan jonkun oikean tykin recce-tehtäviin ja se kaikki on pois tulivoimasta.

Hmmm... Tekis kieltämättä mieli testata tätä käytännössä.

[deggial]

Mikä noista towed tank destroyereista tekee hyviä on, että komento- ja bazookatiimit on kans recceä. Ne siis voi poistaa gone to groundin ja muut ampua. Tossa listassa joutuisit uhraamaan jonkun oikean tykin recce-tehtäviin ja se kaikki on pois tulivoimasta.

Hmmm... Tekis kieltämättä mieli testata tätä käytännössä.

Joo-totta, kuulostaa kyllä hyvältä.
Jos saat tuon toimimaan. niin voidaan vielä tehdä tuunauksia listoihin?

Sinulle TD- komppania, ja minä voin ottaa esim. Rota Radvezkin?
Risto voisi ottaa vaikka sinun laskuvarjojäksterit?

[gutrot]

Pitää pitää mielessä että tää TD homma ei tule kenellekkään yllätyksenä, ja ihmiset osaavat varautua siihen (tyyliin Oskari).
Noi tykit tuovat siihen vielä lisää yhden ambush elementin, mikä vaikeuttaa vastustajan peliä ja be bazokat jotka voivat assaulttaa beilanneet tankit pois. Tämä siis jos saa sen paljastettua ns. ihanteellisessa paikassa.

Mutta joo, kokeilu on paras, siihen pitää vaan varautua että tää ei tule kenellekkään yllätyksenä.

[deggial]

Pitää pitää mielessä että tää TD homma ei tule kenellekkään yllätyksenä, ja ihmiset osaavat varautua siihen (tyyliin Oskari).
Noi tykit tuovat siihen vielä lisää yhden ambush elementin, mikä vaikeuttaa vastustajan peliä ja be bazokat jotka voivat assaulttaa beilanneet tankit pois. Tämä siis jos saa sen paljastettua ns. ihanteellisessa paikassa.

Mutta joo, kokeilu on paras, siihen pitää vaan varautua että tää ei tule kenellekkään yllätyksenä.

Heh- ei varmaan tule kenellekkään yllätyksenä, sillä pelkästään Flamesin sivujen keskustelu foorumilla on varmaan kymmenkunta postausta mitkä liittyy TD-komppaniaan ;)

[deggial]

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Company HQ - 1x CinC M20 Scout Car, 1x 2iC M20 Scout Car (80 pts)
- Patton - 1x Patton (100 pts)

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x M20, 4x M10 3in GMC (405 pts)

Compulsory Tank Destroyer Platoon - 1x Command .50cal Recon Jeep, 2x M20, 4x M10 3in GMC (405 pts)

Tank Platoon - 1x Command M4 or M4A1 Sherman, 3x M4 or M4A1 Sherman (335 pts)
- 76mm Upgrade 1 - 1x Replace M4 or M4A1 Sherman with M4A1 (76mm) Sherman (50 pts)
- 76mm Upgrade 2 - 1x Replace M4 or M4A1 Sherman with M4A3 (76mm) Sherman (55 pts)
- 105 Upgrade (one per company) - 1x Replace M4 or M4A1 Sherman with M4 (105mm) Sherman (-15 pts)

Armored Rifle Platoon - 1x Command Rifle, 5x Rifle, 5x Bazooka, 2x LMG, 1x 60mm Mortar, 2x M3 with .50cal AA MG, 3x M3 with AA MG (295 pts)

Air Observation Post - L4 Grasshopper AOP (40 pts)


1750 Points, 4 Platoons

Testipelien jälkeen luulen että tämä on se lista millä tulee lähdettyä sotimaan ETC-turnaukseen.
Ainoa "haitta" tossa on vaan 4 joukkuetta.
Listassa pitäisi olla iskuvoimaa isoja tankkeja vastaan (10 x 76mm) ja myöskin jalkaväen kuritus onnistuu lukuisilla raskailla ja kevyillä konekivääreillä.
Vaikka lista on Pattonin ansiosta always attack, niin kuitenkin loppusodassa on useita listoja millä on sama sääntö, ja muutamat pelit onkin mennyt puolustaessa.
Silloin tarvetta on ollut joukolle millä luoda painetta nopesti tarvittavaan paikkan (toi Sherman joukkue)
105mm Sherman mukana paremman panssarin ansiosta ja protected ammo. Sillä voi sitten yrittää korkata jonkun tykin poterosta tai vastaavaa?

Jäin vielä miettimään, jos ottaisikin kaikki support joukkueet Trained statuksella, niin silloin mukaan mahtuisi viides joukkue, esim. 4 kpl Stuartteja?
Ne sopisi hyvin tuohon listaan nopeina tankkeina ja toisi lisä potkua monella kk:lla. Niiden tykki ei oikein peloita ketään.

[Gorzag]

Mä sanoisin että toi neljä joukkuetta voi olla tälle listalle aika vakavakin ongelma pelattujen skenaarioiden sekä muiden always attack listojen takia. Saat vain kaksi joukkuetta kentälle reservi tehtävissä, joita tulee vastaan vähintään kaksi, Dust Up ja Hasty Assault, (ja sitten tietty vielä Breaktrough, mutta se on vähän erilainen).

Jos otat molemmat Tank Destroyerit, on aika helppo estää niitä pääsemästä ambushistaan kentälle hyviin asemiin tai pahimmillaan jopa estää niiden ilmestyminen kokonaan. Valmiiksi kentältä et kuitenkaan halua alottaaa. Jos taas otat vaan toisen, on suht hellpo keskittää kaikki tuli Shermanneihin tai Armoured Rifleihin. Ja jos taas et ota kumpaakaan, ei koko listassa oikein ole pointtia.

Viides joukkue tuskin yksin auttaa hirveästi koska tilanne pysyy sillon aika samana. Muistaakseni Mikolla oli listassaan joku kolmen levyn pioneeri joukkue juurikin tuomaan joukkueiden määrän kuuteen. Jos saisi pisteet sekä siihen että Stuartteihin jostain, se ois aika hyvä. Armored Rifled tosin haluais mielellään pysyä veteraaneina.

Tässä jotain ajatuksia. Niin joo, ja mun Pantterien ja Panzerien kylkipanssarit on ihan eri mieltä Stuarttien tykistä;)