Sotavasara.net

· No more than a third (33%) of each force’s models can be armed with bows/crossbows. (IMPORTANT: During the tournament only the Riders of Rohan and Haradrim Raiders models that are actually firing a bow count as armed with bows. All the Riders that are carrying a bow on their back do not count as armed with a bow. Note that their points cost remain the same).

Clarification needed for elven blades. - calrax
Replies [10]. This Reply Posted [1/28/2005 19:56].

There something that has been bothering me for some time now, and it is the latest new answer added to the ROTK FAQ. Before that, I there was no problems with the elven blade rules, but now there seems to be one.

It is stated in the ROTK-rulebook, that warrior with elven blade has the option use his weapon with both hands, and if this is done, the weapon counts as two handed weapon for the duration of that close combat phase. Therefore the ROTK FAQ seemed to be very logical in Q&A no 4: --------------------------------------------------------------
Q4 – Is a mounted model authorised to use an Elven blade as a two-handed weapon ? It is specified that it’s impossible in Shadow & Flame in Glorfindel’s description, but it is not clearly specified in the Return of the King rules manual.

A4 – Two-handed weapons cannot be used from horseback, and Elven blades count as two-handed weapons in all respects if used with both hands, therefore a mounted model cannot use them in this way.

---------------------------------------------------------------

This seemed to clarify that they actually work as two-handed weapons in all respects, clearing the issue with both using it with bow and from horseback. It all seemed to clear, as using it from horseback was mentioned in the original S&F rules, and using it with bow was mentioned in the summary in the page 173. If the elven blade counted as two-handed weapon while used with two hands, it should not be allowed to use it that way as per rules for two-handed weapons.

Now the lastest update to the FAQ seem to mess up things a little bit:

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Q42 - The rules summary on page 173 says that a model with a spear, shield or bow can't use an Elven blade as a two-handed weapon. Page 51 says that it's only a spear or shield that stops it being used as a two-handed weapon, and doesn't mention the bow. Which is correct ?

A42 - The summary is incorrect.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The Q&A 42 seems to imply that it allowed to use elven blade as two-handed weapon while the warrior is carrying bow, which really seems to contradict with Q&A 4.

How should this be interpreted?

Should it be like:

"Elven blades count as two-handed weapons in all respects if used with both hands, with the exception that they can be used as two-handed weapons while the model carries a bow."

This seems to the correct way to interpret it, but I've got to say that it seemed to a way clearer rule before the Q&A 42 came in, because then there seemed to be no exeptions to the "in all respects" part of the rule.

Am I reading this correctly?
Reply
Top


RE: Clarification needed for elven blades. - hithero
Replies [1]. This Reply Posted [1/27/2005 16:08].


>> Am I reading this correctly?

No idea, I got completely lost The latest rules are found on the website here, I think this clarifies the situation.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/elves/tactica/1/

Dave
Reply
Top


RE: RE: Clarification needed for elven blades. - Walgers
Replies [0]. This Reply Posted [1/27/2005 16:08].

In my oppinion the should be able to use it while also carriing a bow. If in combat they have not used their bow and have their elven blade ready. In TTT the elves fire at the uruks and then use their elven blades. They carry both and use the blade also two-handed.
Reply
Top


RE: Clarification needed for elven blades. - MOD-Khamul Of The Nine (Steve) [email protected]
Replies [7]. This Reply Posted [1/28/2005 19:56].


The answer to Q42 doesn't change anything in the main rules at all, check out the section on Elven Blades in the ROTK rulebook. There's an error in the rules summary on p173 of the manual, that's what this particular answer is clearing up.

Elven Blades remain as in the Weapons section of the book, i.e. they can't be used two-handed if carrying a spear or a shield, but they can be used two-handed if carrying a bow.

Khamul/Steve.
Reply
Top


RE: RE: Clarification needed for elven blades. - JorianOfGondor
Replies [6]. This Reply Posted [1/28/2005 19:56].

>>
>> The answer to Q42 doesn't change anything in the main rules at all, check out the section on Elven Blades in the ROTK rulebook. There's an error in the rules summary on p173 of the manual, that's what this particular answer is clearing up.
>>
>> Elven Blades remain as in the Weapons section of the book, i.e. they can't be used two-handed if carrying a spear or a shield, but they can be used two-handed if carrying a bow.
>>
>> Khamul/Steve.

this makes sence, because say a bowmen straps his bow to his back shouldn't he be able to swing it 2-handed.
Reply
Top


RE: RE: RE: Clarification needed for elven blades. - hithero
Replies [5]. This Reply Posted [1/28/2005 19:56].


>> this makes sence, because say a bowmen straps his bow to his back shouldn't he be able to swing it 2-handed.

Thats right, so why can't you do the same with other 2-handed weapons?

Dave
Reply
Top


RE: RE: RE: RE: Clarification needed for elven blades. - Prometheustt
Replies [4]. This Reply Posted [1/28/2005 19:56].

>>
>> >> this makes sence, because say a bowmen straps his bow to his back shouldn't he be able to swing it 2-handed.
>>
>> Thats right, so why can't you do the same with other 2-handed weapons?
>>
>> Dave

Because they're not elves.
Reply
Top


RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Clarification needed for elven blades. - nasalhair
Replies [3]. This Reply Posted [1/28/2005 19:56].


>> >> Thats right, so why can't you do the same with other 2-handed weapons?
>> >>
>> >> Dave
>>
>> Because they're not elves.

And you don't pay +1pt for every standard 2HW.
Reply
Top


RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Clarification needed for elven blades. - hithero
Replies [2]. This Reply Posted [1/28/2005 19:56].

>>
>> >> >> Thats right, so why can't you do the same with other 2-handed weapons?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Dave
>> >>
>> >> Because they're not elves.
>>
>> And you don't pay +1pt for every standard 2HW.

Being an elf and paying 1pt has nothing to do with it; any warrior real (ancient armies did)or fictional is able to use a 2-handed weapon with a slung bow (or shield for that matter)
A mounted Gondor captain can sling his massive lance somewhere to fight with sword and shield, a ROR can have multiple throwing spears, sword, shield and bow with no problems - so why can't some warrior have an axe and bow?

Dave
Reply
Top


RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Clarification needed for elven blades. - MOD-Khamul Of The Nine (Steve) [email protected]
Replies [1]. This Reply Posted [1/28/2005 19:56].

>>
>> Being an elf and paying 1pt has nothing to do with it; any warrior real (ancient armies did)or fictional is able to use a 2-handed weapon with a slung bow (or shield for that matter)
>> A mounted Gondor captain can sling his massive lance somewhere to fight with sword and shield, a ROR can have multiple throwing spears, sword, shield and bow with no problems - so why can't some warrior have an axe and bow?

A mounted Gondor Captain has his horse to potentially look after the lance though.

2H weapons are normally big, heavy things in this game, so would be difficult to just strap on your back. Unlike Elven Blades which are specially crafted and not so unwieldy.

A warrior can have an axe and bow, just not a massive two-handed axe and bow.

Khamul/Steve.
Reply
Top


RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Clarification needed for elven blades. - Erlprinz
Replies [0]. This Reply Posted [1/28/2005 19:56].

>> >>
>> >> Being an elf and paying 1pt has nothing to do with it; any warrior real (ancient armies did)or fictional is able to use a 2-handed weapon with a slung bow (or shield for that matter)
>> >> A mounted Gondor captain can sling his massive lance somewhere to fight with sword and shield, a ROR can have multiple throwing spears, sword, shield and bow with no problems - so why can't some warrior have an axe and bow?
>>
>> A mounted Gondor Captain has his horse to potentially look after the lance though.
>>
>> 2H weapons are normally big, heavy things in this game, so would be difficult to just strap on your back. Unlike Elven Blades which are specially crafted and not so unwieldy.
>>
>> A warrior can have an axe and bow, just not a massive two-handed axe and bow.

And looking at it from another (less practical) angle I'd add: Elves have this option since otherwise there would be no point in giving them a blade rather than a spear when it costs the same. And we do like Haldir's Elves.
Reply
Top

Garoth kirjoitti: Ensimmäinen asia:Elven bladea voi sittenkin käyttää kahden käden aseena, vaikka käyttäjällä olisi jousi.

Toinen asia: Turnauksissa Haradrim Raiderit, joilla on jousi selässä, lasketaan jousettomiksi.

Kolmas asia: Mitä ilmeisimmin armeijoiden jako on pakotettu tasan, eli 500/500.

Isotalo kirjoitti:Tuo 500/500 on kyllä äärimmäisen tylsä uudistus! Tuo armeijoiden koon vaihtelu toi hauskan lisän turnauksiin, kai viisaat miehet GWssä ovat hyvän syyn sen poistoon miettineet...

It is indeed correct. Matt [Ward] felt the variation in points value made some of the scenarios unplayable so a fairer, even spread of points was applied.