Warseerin sivuilta löytyi ketju missä oli vertailtu erilaisia yksiköitä taistelemassa horde muodostelmassa. Laskelmoinnit antoivat hyvin vihiä siitä ketkä todennäköisesti tulevat pärjäämään hordemuodostelmassa ja ketkä ei. Nyt on luvassa siis kiintoisaa copypastea math hammerin ystäville.
Men at Arms
It's not that these guys are good (they aren't), but they are certainly cheap, coming with a spear or halberd as well as a shield for less than the cost of most infantry with just a basic weapon.
Compared to Empire state troops, their weapon skill 2 hurts their survivability in combat, but their “free” shields makes them more robust against shooting. Against WS4 it won't matter whether they are WS2 or 3 (they are hitting on 4's and being hit on 3's either way), whereas against WS5 opponents they will actually be hitting the enemy on 5's which will cause their damage output to drop off a cliff. In those cases they will probably want to switch over to hand weapon and shields to limit the damage.
So how would M@A do against other horde units?
50 Men at Arms 277 Points
Halberds and shields, command.
Vs 50 Empire Halberdiers 270 Points
Halberds, command.
*Halberdiers do 13 wounds, whereas the men at arms do 10. Clearly the weapon skill 3 of the Empire state troops wins out, which is what you'd expect really.
Vs 50 Night Goblins 255 Points
Spears and shields, nets, command.
*Battle of the low weapon skills. The gobbos do a healthy 9 wounds. The M@A only manage to do 6 wounds back, the gobbo netters are killing them here with their -1 strenght modifier.
Vs 50 Goblins 270 Points
Spears, shields and light armour, command.
*8 wounds from the M@A followed by 9 from the Goblins. Empire Halberdiers would do 11 wounds and win the combat, but the M@A manage to lose.
Vs 50 Orcs 380 Points
Additional choppas and light armour, command.
*The Orcs do 19 kills! 19! With WS2, T3 and no save the peasant soldiers are like lambs to the slaughter. Oh the humanity. This is a worst-case scenario for M@A, who manage to do 8 wounds back. Interestingly they do the same amount of wounds against Orcs as they do against Gobbos with shields and light armour, and more wounds against Orcs than they did against the lowly Night Gobbos and their netters.
Vs 50 Skaven Clanrats 270 Points
Spears, shields and light armour, command.
*11 vs 8 kills. The Men at Arms are owned again by yet another slightly cheaper unit than themselves. It's a good job you don't give up victory points for losing a peasant banner.
Vs 50 High Elf Spearmen 475 Points (lolololol)
Spears, shields and light armour, command.
*Ok don't laugh, I'm just running the numbers for fun. The Elven Spearmen do a good 14 kills (edit: 18 including rerolls to hit), but it hardly justifies the 500 point price tag. They take 9 return losses from the M@A. It's worth noting that since all 50 of the elves get to attack, any losses they take causes them to lose attacks in the second round, unlike everybody else so far. The only saving grace here is that Men at Arms perform no better or worse than Empire Halberdiers who get pwnt just as hard, but the M@A at least come with built-in shields to protect them from elven arrows and spells so I'd say they win out here.
Vs 50 Dark Elf Warriors 365 Points
Spears, shields and light armour, command.
*Ok this is still kinda ridiculous since I doubt anybody would take a unit of horde Dark Elves, but lets do it anyway. The Dark Elves do 11 wounds (edit: 15 including hatred) to the M@A 9. So yeah, I doubt we'll be seeing horde Dark Eves anytime soon with results like this. As I've said, M@A suffer no additional disadvantage against WS4 opponents so their results even out compared to WS3 units like Empire Halberdiers, who again get the same results.
Beastmen
50x Ungor- spear, shield + Command = 315 (:/)
Hit with 27, wound with 14, you save 1 and a bit.
50x Gors- AHW, command = 425
Again hit with about 26, wound with 13, you save one and a bit.
Note that there are reasonable odds to land Hatred with these units though...
50x Dwarfs- Grt Wpns, Hvy Armour, Command = 525
20 hits, approx 17 wounds, you save none. But you did get to strike first...
50 marauders with great weapons, full command and mark of Khorne = 310
Men-at-Arms strike first and kill 10 marauders. Marauders strike back, about 27 hits, 22 wounds and kills. Men-at-Arms are no longer stubborn and will probably break.
Orc Boys
These reasonably priced infantry seems to beat all the competition due to the combination of strength and toughness 4 combined with a good number of attacks. Because you only get one attack per model past the first rank, choppas still grant the same number of extra attacks as spears, and grant extra attacks for longer in the case that your ranks start being depleted (a problem that High Elves desperately suffer from). Since they lose their strenght bonus after the first round I'll take two rounds of combat into account. Also the Boss is much stronger than a regular champion (3 str5 attacks in the first round), but he's only initiative 2 and vulernable to being picked out. I won't factor this into my maths but it's worth keeping in mind.
50 Orc Boys 380 Points
Additional choppas and light armour, command.
Vs 50 Stormvermin 375 Points
Halbers and heavy armour, command.
*The Stormvermin rack up 10 kills, but the Orcs come back with 12 and win the round. Although with certain upgrades the Stormvermin coulds wipe the floor with the Orcs, but at basic stats they lose. The Stormvermin will have the advantage in the second round however as the Orcs lose their strenght bonus and only do 7 kills. So the Stormvermin would probably win eventually as long as they pass their leadership test from losing the first round of combat.
Vs 50 Empire Halberdiers 270 Points
Halberds, command.
*The Orcs don't quite match up to the slaughter they inflict on Men at Arms, but they get a more than solid 14 Kills. Ouch! The Halberdiers get 8 back which is just not enough. In the second round of combat the Orcs only get 9 kills, but it's still enough to beat the Halberdiers again.
Vs 50 Skaven Clanrats 270 Points
Spears, shields and light armour, command.
*Skaven do a pretty miserable 6 wounds whereas the Orcs do 12. The Orcs do 7 wounds thereafter so they should win in the end.
Vs 50 Night Goblins 255 Points
Spears and shields, nets, command.
*Luckily for the Night Gobbos, their nets stop them from receiving an epic pwning of the sort the Orcs handed out to the Men at Arms, but they still take 12 losses and only do 6 back. Without netters, common goblins are not so fortunate...
Vs 50 Khorne Marauders 300 Points
Great weapons, mark of khorne, command.
An interesting thing about Marks of Chaos is that they are not a point-per-model deal, so the larger the unit is the “cheaper” the upgrade relatively becomes. Anyway, the Orcs put out another solid showing of senseless brutality with 14 kills, but the Marauders come back with a whopping 18 kills! Oh lawd! Assuming the Orcs stick around after this beating, they do another 11 wounds in the next round, meaning half the Marauders are already dead by now causung them to some some return attacks. But it doesn't stop them from putting out another 16 kills. Solid win for the Marauders. What a bloodbath.
Vs 50 Gors 425 Points
Additional hand weapons, command.
*Lets be generous and say the Gors get hatred, letting them rack up a good 10 kills on the Orcs, but the Orcs edge out a win on 11. (If the Gors have frenzy they would likely score 13 kills and win). Now the Gors lose hatred and the Orcs are strength 3, leading to 8 kills (10 with frenzy) from the Gors followed by 7 from the Orcs. So it seems that the Orcs do well on the first round but eventually lose out to the Gors higher weapon skill.
Regular unit vs horde
And yet another point regarding hordes. What if they fight a regular unit?
Lets compare two units.
50 Empire Swordsmen (10 wide, 5 deep) 320 Points
Swords, shields, command.
50 Men at Arms (10 wide, 5 deep) 277 Points
Halberds, shields command.
*The M@A do 7 kills vs 9 from the swordsmen. Once again the M@A demonstrate how useless they are. Interestingly the Swordsmen hardly benefit from their extra 6++ parry save, they took 7 losses just like a Spearmen regiment would in this situation. But what if the Swordsmen deploy 5-wide and 10-deep instead?
In that case, the M@A would be able to get 7 models into base-to base contact, so they'd only get 22 attacks instead of 31 (including champion). The swordsmen take 5 losses and do 3 kills back. So the M@A win for once! Of course the swordsmen are stubborn on at least leadership 7, almost certainly with a battle standard bearer nearby so the battle could probably drag on all game at this rate.
Against 5-wide Orc boys, the M@A would probably draw rather than get utterly slaughtered.
I've got to say, 50 Khorne Marauders with great weapons look pretty nutty with the horde rule.
vs. Empire Halberdiers: Halberdiers kill 10, but Marauder respond back with 23 kills!
vs. Empire Swordsmen: Swordsmen kill 8, Marauders strike back for 14 kills.
vs. Night Gobbos w/ nets, spears, shields: Gobbos kill 10, Marauders kill 18.
vs. Gobbos w/ LA, spears, shields: Gobbos kill 10, Marauders kill 19.
vs. Orcs w/ extra choppas, LA: Orcs kill 14, Marauders kill 18. Second round, Orcs kill 10, Marauders kill 16.
vs. Stormvermin w/ HA, halberds: SV kill 10, Marauders kill 17.
vs. Dwarf Warriors w/ HA, shields: Dwarfs (striking first!) kill 8, Marauders kill 11.
Dwarfs probably won't go horde anyway, but I just thought I'd run the numbers. In fact, it probably makes more sense for them to horde up if they use GWs:
vs. Dwarf Warriors w/ HA, GW: Marauders (striking first!) kill 14, Dwarfs kill 13. Not impressive for the Dwarfs when you consider that unit costs 525 points, to just 300 for the Marauders.
A last one, just for fun: vs. a horde of Chaos Warriors, Khorne, halberds: Warriors kill 28 Marauders, reducing their attacks back. They kill 9 in return. Ouch. But that's what happens when you pit a 300 point unit against an 860(!) point unit.
Eli tiivistettynä: näyttäisi siltä, että khorne maraudereista tulee hulluja lihamyllyjä hordesäännöllä ja ne silppuaa lähes mitä vain. Toinen pahimpia ja vahvimpia hordeja tulee O&G:ltä kun örkeille antaa ylimääräisen aseen. Lisäksi uskomattoman halpa, mutta tehokas horde löytyy vielä Skaveneiden orjista, mitkä maksavat keihäillä 50 yksikkönä vain vaivaiset 100pts. Näiden laskelmien mukaan näyttäisi, että moni armeija, jolta löytyy noin ~3-7pts maksavia joukkoja tulee saamaan hordesäännön myötä hyvää buffia. Tämä ajaa 7 edikan pieniä eliittiyksiköitä ahtaalle ja demoneillakin joutuu miettimään minne hyökkäilee ja mitä kannattaa vältellä =)
